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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

Postby cwrig » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:09 pm

My Two year old Lhasa Apso had an ultra sound at three weeks and the vet said that he can confirm she is pregnant but could only see one embryo. I just wanted to know how reliable this is and if their could be more. We are going back in four weeks to have another one done or and xray done and we will find out more but I am just curious to hear other peoples experiences. Please do not start giving me a hard time though about breeding my dog as I have plenty of money to make sure she gets the best treatment, she has been vet checked previously before mating and we have also bred her with the finest of males and we know his and her families medical pasts, so everything was done correctly. But because this is our first time I just want to know this question. Thankyou.
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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

Postby jelani » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:16 pm

• "How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?"

Almost totally UNreliable.
First reason is that the embryos have only just implanted their placentas on Day 21, and so depositing of such as calcium has barely begun.
Second reason is that what can be detected at that age is so tiny that it can easily be hidden behind a rib (xrays have the same problem).
Third reason is that not all embryos are viable - many fail to develop the mechanisms needed to transfer nutrients & oxygen & wastes via their placenta, others fail to develop to a stage where various organs start functioning. Mother Nature is remorseless at eliminating genetic failures.
Fourth reason is that there are often bacteria & viruses in the uterus that can kill embryos.

So 5 embryos at 3½ weeks is rarely even 4 puppies at 10 weeks.

• "she has been vet checked previously before mating and we have also bred her with the finest of males and we know his and her families medical pasts"

I treat every claim there with great scorn.
1: Vet checked for WHAT? - worms? - fleas? - lice? - a uterus culture? How about the genetic checks?

2: What PROOF do you have that he is "the finest of males?" Few owners of top males would accept a b?tch whose owner has no mentor and knows so little about breeding that he resorts to asking the Y!A kids!

If your b?tch is a GSD, she & the stud should both have ALL of the certificates listed in
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/The_GSD_Source/links/Defining_a_GSD_001261993982/
If they are some other breed, the foundation club of their breed will have a list of requirements relevant to the breed. But obviously you don't even belong to that club. Nor to any of the e-groups dedicated to their breed.

I also wonder what YOU mean by "her families medical pasts".
I WANT it to mean:
(1) Whether each in the P2 through P5 generations lived at least an average lifespan or is still alive.
(2) In any of the litters that the ancestors & the ancestors' siblings' sired or whelped: What orthopaedic problems (brachydactyly? cleft palate? cruciate ligament problems? elbow dysplasia? hip dysplasia? overshot? patella luxation? spondylosis? undershot? wry-mouth?) were produced. What character/temperament problems were produced. What digestive problems (achalasia? bloat? mega-oesophagus? pancreatic insufficiency?) were produced. What sensory problems (blindness? deafness? PRA?). Etc., for whatever is known to be in that breed's gene-pool.
(3) What killed the dead individuals - bloat, cancer, DM, fistulas, heart failure, MD, etc.

Add
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/The_GSD_Source/
to your browser, so that you can easily look up all sorts of information about dogs, especially GSDs.

Informer - first pup in 1950; GSD breeder & trainer as of 1968I
jelani
 
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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

Postby manolo » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:17 pm

Thanks for the points, voters.
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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

Postby alberic44 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:20 pm

Thanks for the points, voters.
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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

Postby adolphe » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:33 pm

Usually people wait until day 32-35 post mating. As 3 weeks it's easily reabsorbed and ultrasounds don't do a good job of counting fetuses which is why you will want an xray at day 55. FWIW a vet check is not enough of a "go ahead" for health. Lhasa's need to have hips and patellas OFA certified as well as a complete eye exam before you can consider breeding them. Having "plenty of money" does not make you a responsible breeder.

http://www.lhasaapso.org/club/codeofethics.html
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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

Postby alfonse » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:36 pm

I have NEVER seen the point of doing a scan. It only confirms, or not, whether there is a pregnancy at the time of the scan. It's NOT a guarantee that the ****** will carry to term. And as you have realised, it's not accurate either. Provided you have a healthy ****** who has been wormed and her boosters brought up to date before the mating, and you used a proven stud dog and had a couple of successful matings, not necessarily with a tie, then just assume she's pregnant, and wait. Taking a ****** to a vet is stressful for most, at a time when they should be having a quiet calm life. And it only lines the pockets of vets (and I have serious suspicions about any vet who would give a scan at only 3 weeks!! - kerching).

There's another reason why I don't take a pregnant ****** to a vet - sick dogs go to the vet so why risk her picking up an infection?

I might just about x-ray around the time she's due, if it's felt something isn't right, or to confirm she's empty - no puppies.

Leave her alone to enjoy a calm pregnancy!!

ps I'd only scan early on to confirm a pregnancy from an accidental mating, to decide whether to go for a spay or not
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How reliable is an ultra sound for dogs at three weeks?

Postby wiellaford » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:50 pm

better to get a US at approx 4 weeks.

I have found through mine and others exp that one done a week earlier is widly unreliable.
She could reabsorb, and not have a pregnancy.

Of course the only way to tell for sure how many is a X ray, you might as well get this done just before whelping to establish size as well.
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